Seneca argues that once you entertain Aristotelian moderation, “just a little anger (vice)”, its all downhill from there. It’ll eventually get the best of you. You can’t contain it forever. Moderation is indeed a Stoic virtue but not in service of vice.
Reading your description of Symeon, I can't help but think of Epictetus's "open door" policy. Apparently the early Christians didn't look favorably on suicide, so all poor Symeon could do was make himself suffer and "hope for deliverance".
It sounds to me like the antithesis of a virtuous life, or of life "according to nature". If all humans behaved like this, we'd not be here to read this story... 🙈
That said, Diogenes is also a tad too extreme for me. I do prefer some indifferents.
Daniel, indeed, Symeon's life seems like a wasted opportunity to me. I think that's the problem with a philosophy (Christianity) that is so focused on the (non-existent, as far as I can tell) afterlife. That focus comes at the expense of the present.
This is such a wonderful essay! It’s chock full o’ the most sensational headlines that have circulated today. Just the fact that Plato has thrown his hands up, and has to shout, “[He is] Socrates gone mad!,” is reminiscent of the cartoon “Bizarro World”--and reminiscent of the daily insanity of our recent presidential administration.
Once I saw David Blaine stand on a column in Bryant Park. It was May 2002. I think he stood up there for 35 hours. People don’t change. 😄
I’m surprised, though, Diogenes was able to pull away from dark side of banking and become a Jedi. Banking to Cynicism? 🤔 If only our bankers in the daily scandals read some classics, they’d have gone down in history more virtuous even if they were defecating in the street! 😄
I’ll take “Genius and Wit of Diogenes” for $300. After all, there are too many similarities between a plucked chicken and a man. 🦵🍗 👍😊
Mike, the banking thing isn't clear. One interpretation is that Diogenes (and his father) really did engage in some shady business, and that he then saw the light and decided for a radically different life.
However, in the historical context of that episode, it is also possible that they were engaging in a subversive act of political protest against one (or both) of the factions vying for control of the city.
Wouldn’t follow either-more of an Epictetus, Seneca, Cicero type of guy.🤷♂️
You and me, brother.
When I read much of what is attributed to Diogenes, I’m reminded of the late Yogi Berra/-“ I never said half the things I said.”…
😆
Miss Yogi.
Luis Bunuel made an awesome surrealistic film about Saint Simeon Stylites "Simon of the Desert". It stars an incandescent Silvia Pinal https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Simon_of_the_Desert
Wow, I'm sure Pinal was the Devil...
I saw it when a friend had a subscription to the Criterion Collection. Here are some of his movies https://www.criterion.com/shop/collection/16-luis-buuel.
Yep! and unforgettable at that. The Vatican wasn't happy with Bunuel.
😆 I bet they weren't!
Diogenes clearly enjoyed his life to the fullest, such as it was. I'd say he was on to something.
Me too.
I’d follow neither: “Everything in moderation.” Aristotle?
Seneca argues that once you entertain Aristotelian moderation, “just a little anger (vice)”, its all downhill from there. It’ll eventually get the best of you. You can’t contain it forever. Moderation is indeed a Stoic virtue but not in service of vice.
But anger can be momentary. Often it’s not “downhill from there” in my experience.
Sure, so long as one doesn't act on it. Or feed it. Seneca advices to just let it pass, since it will, eventually.
Ann, not Aristotle, for me! I'm working on an essay comparing directly Aristotle and the Stoics. We can have a more in-depth discussion then!
Reading your description of Symeon, I can't help but think of Epictetus's "open door" policy. Apparently the early Christians didn't look favorably on suicide, so all poor Symeon could do was make himself suffer and "hope for deliverance".
It sounds to me like the antithesis of a virtuous life, or of life "according to nature". If all humans behaved like this, we'd not be here to read this story... 🙈
That said, Diogenes is also a tad too extreme for me. I do prefer some indifferents.
Daniel, indeed, Symeon's life seems like a wasted opportunity to me. I think that's the problem with a philosophy (Christianity) that is so focused on the (non-existent, as far as I can tell) afterlife. That focus comes at the expense of the present.
And yes, I do cultivate some indifferents myself!
To answer your question, I would go with Diogenes! I would subscribe to Cynicism as described by Epictetus and his emphasis on cleanliness.
As Epictetus puts it, if you can't be a Cynic, at least be a Stoic. That's high enough of a bar for me!
This is such a wonderful essay! It’s chock full o’ the most sensational headlines that have circulated today. Just the fact that Plato has thrown his hands up, and has to shout, “[He is] Socrates gone mad!,” is reminiscent of the cartoon “Bizarro World”--and reminiscent of the daily insanity of our recent presidential administration.
Once I saw David Blaine stand on a column in Bryant Park. It was May 2002. I think he stood up there for 35 hours. People don’t change. 😄
I’m surprised, though, Diogenes was able to pull away from dark side of banking and become a Jedi. Banking to Cynicism? 🤔 If only our bankers in the daily scandals read some classics, they’d have gone down in history more virtuous even if they were defecating in the street! 😄
I’ll take “Genius and Wit of Diogenes” for $300. After all, there are too many similarities between a plucked chicken and a man. 🦵🍗 👍😊
Mike, the banking thing isn't clear. One interpretation is that Diogenes (and his father) really did engage in some shady business, and that he then saw the light and decided for a radically different life.
However, in the historical context of that episode, it is also possible that they were engaging in a subversive act of political protest against one (or both) of the factions vying for control of the city.
😳