Personally, I feel there's a dearth of people in my life who can be considered anything close to a Stoic sage. And I suspect the same applies to society in general. Sure, you can find people who exhibit virtuous behavior of a sort, but it's rarely consistent or particularly noteworthy. And yes, you can look for sage-like behavior in historical or fictional characters, but I find that a lot less motivational than having recourse to the real flesh and blood characters around us. Anyway, I guess this is mostly my complaint about life and society in general.
Jim, I don’t know many sages either, though my grandfather, with whom I grew up, is a role model to me. I also do find inspiration in people like Epictetus, as well as in fictional characters, like Odysseus. But that’s me, obviously!.
No, I wouldn’t. But a role model doesn’t have to be a sage. He was kind, always trying to help others, and never got upset or angry. Those are qualities I strive to emulate.
Ron, one doesn’t have to agree with everything a person does to consider him a role model. Socrates did believe in a god, I don’t. I still think he’s one of the most remarkable human beings in history.
I've spent much time lately considering the nature of "perspective," "point of view," and "vantage" - which (whatever they are!) are accorded great influence on experience and behavior in ancient Eastern and Western wisdom traditions as well as modern neuroscience. The example of "sage on shoulder" would seem to perfectly accord with this view. In many ways, most philosophical/psychological/religious/spiritual guidance seems to have perspective shifting at its core. And yet, I continue to wonder what is perspective/POV/vantage and how (by what means, agent, or self) is it shifted? Thanks, very much Massimo, for this very insightful practice.
Noel, glad you find the exercise useful! Yes, you are right, perspective shifting is a widespread practice among wisdom traditions. Who does the shifting? The self, the agent, the ego, whatever you wish to call it. The “I” to which you refer when you say “I think this or that.” The sage on the shoulder exercise, in particular, is meant to provide us with something like a second opinion, so to speak, on things. Such opinion is generated by ourselves, once we manage to shift our point of view to a less emotional and more analytical one.
Love Epictetus as well. But the idea of him as a role model sounds even more distant to me than Socrates. It seems that he had an ability to endure that was almost supernatural (Sage-quality), as a role model he intimidates me a bit, perhaps more than Socrates. I have been searching among people that i know and that have extraordinary resilience and character. Have a good pool of candidates. I tried to learn more about Cleanthes, despite Diogenes calling him “stupid…”. But his journey, reliance on manual labor to support his desire of knowledge, humility, sound very inspiring to me. But so hard to find info about him.
Very happy that the sage on your shoulder talked you out of it!
Seriously, though, I've noticed the sage on my shoulder becoming less like Diogenes of Sinope and more like Epictetus as I follow and complete the exercises in "Live Like a Stoic".
I'm working through "Live Like a Stoic" at the moment, Massimo and coincidentally the weeks align with the ones you're posting here each week. The exercises are challenging but manageable and very helpful. Thanks to you and Gregory Lopez for an excellent, practical manual to living a life of Stoicsm.
Personally, I feel there's a dearth of people in my life who can be considered anything close to a Stoic sage. And I suspect the same applies to society in general. Sure, you can find people who exhibit virtuous behavior of a sort, but it's rarely consistent or particularly noteworthy. And yes, you can look for sage-like behavior in historical or fictional characters, but I find that a lot less motivational than having recourse to the real flesh and blood characters around us. Anyway, I guess this is mostly my complaint about life and society in general.
Jim, I don’t know many sages either, though my grandfather, with whom I grew up, is a role model to me. I also do find inspiration in people like Epictetus, as well as in fictional characters, like Odysseus. But that’s me, obviously!.
So you would say your grandfather even lived up to the qualities of a Stoic sage?
No, I wouldn’t. But a role model doesn’t have to be a sage. He was kind, always trying to help others, and never got upset or angry. Those are qualities I strive to emulate.
Well I guess he got the cardinal virtue of justice right!
Socrates embrace of the supernatural (atheism was one of the charges) in the form of a diamon is not something that I aspire to.
Ron, one doesn’t have to agree with everything a person does to consider him a role model. Socrates did believe in a god, I don’t. I still think he’s one of the most remarkable human beings in history.
I've spent much time lately considering the nature of "perspective," "point of view," and "vantage" - which (whatever they are!) are accorded great influence on experience and behavior in ancient Eastern and Western wisdom traditions as well as modern neuroscience. The example of "sage on shoulder" would seem to perfectly accord with this view. In many ways, most philosophical/psychological/religious/spiritual guidance seems to have perspective shifting at its core. And yet, I continue to wonder what is perspective/POV/vantage and how (by what means, agent, or self) is it shifted? Thanks, very much Massimo, for this very insightful practice.
Noel, glad you find the exercise useful! Yes, you are right, perspective shifting is a widespread practice among wisdom traditions. Who does the shifting? The self, the agent, the ego, whatever you wish to call it. The “I” to which you refer when you say “I think this or that.” The sage on the shoulder exercise, in particular, is meant to provide us with something like a second opinion, so to speak, on things. Such opinion is generated by ourselves, once we manage to shift our point of view to a less emotional and more analytical one.
WWED- What Would Epictetus Do? A catchy phrase that would make for some interesting swag like the Christians put out, wouldn't it?😁
Believe it or not, I thought about it several times…
Love Epictetus as well. But the idea of him as a role model sounds even more distant to me than Socrates. It seems that he had an ability to endure that was almost supernatural (Sage-quality), as a role model he intimidates me a bit, perhaps more than Socrates. I have been searching among people that i know and that have extraordinary resilience and character. Have a good pool of candidates. I tried to learn more about Cleanthes, despite Diogenes calling him “stupid…”. But his journey, reliance on manual labor to support his desire of knowledge, humility, sound very inspiring to me. But so hard to find info about him.
Cleanthes is a good one! Yes, not a lot known about him, unfortunately.
Very happy that the sage on your shoulder talked you out of it!
Seriously, though, I've noticed the sage on my shoulder becoming less like Diogenes of Sinope and more like Epictetus as I follow and complete the exercises in "Live Like a Stoic".
I love Diogenes. But Epictetus is my guy!
I'm working through "Live Like a Stoic" at the moment, Massimo and coincidentally the weeks align with the ones you're posting here each week. The exercises are challenging but manageable and very helpful. Thanks to you and Gregory Lopez for an excellent, practical manual to living a life of Stoicsm.
Peter, thanks, appreciated. Happy practice!