I am struggling with this exercise. Namely, redirecting an aversion away from things I dislike - but not in my power - and transferring (the aversion?) it to things I can completely control. For instance, I have an aversion to an employee's sub-par work product - something not in my complete control. How can I transfer this aversion to something within my complete control? Also, I fail to identify which things within my complete control could have caused the aversion. Please help.
Hi Dan, that exercise is the toughest in the book, and Greg and I decided that if we are doing a second edition we will either drop it or change it significantly.
Still, your employee’s sub-par work is, of course, not up to you, so it’s not helpful to be aversed to it. Identify something that is up to you and “transfer” your aversion to that, for instance, you should be averse at getting irritated by things outside your control, or at not giving constructive feedback to employees. “Transferring” here is fancy wording for refocuse / nudge your thoughts from A (which is not up to you) to B (which is up to you).
In terms of identifying what causes your aversion, you need to reflect on how that aversion got started, what are your motives. For instance, you may have an unreasonable desire for efficiency, or for controlling other people’s performances—neither of which, of course, are up to you. This bit of the exercise is essentially about developing self knowledge, as the Oracle at Delphi said we should.
I find Massimo's interpretation of Epictetus helpful: Epictetus suggests that those who fall into circumstances they wish to avoid are those who suffer misfortune, by which he means that much suffering comes from a disconnect between what you want to happen and what actually happens." I often sense that “disconnection" but don’t identify it as such and so, wallow in foggy unease with less ability to act on the “suffering."
“Aversion to failure” is also more actionable than the real but almost cliche phrase “fear of failure,” which is so limiting for so many.
A good reminder. I can only imagine the tranquility I would feel if I could truly live like this! I focused on desiring proper reactions and actions, tranquility when presented with unexpected news (I try not to add the value judgement “bad”), and my intentions. I should only be adverse to improper reactions/intentions rather than the events themselves.
I was working on my hospital example from last week.
I found that I had an aversion to receiving bad results from the exams at the hospital.
Thinking about the results of the exams was what preceded this aversion.
The conclusion I came to is that, instead of thinking about if the results were going to be positive or negative, I should’ve pondered on things in my control such as “ in case I need to have a surgery I’ll do X to get ready for my absence at work”.
I don’t think I’ve transferred an aversion though. I feel like even by planning out what I’ll do in case of a bad result, I’m still I’m thinking about the result…
Thank you dear Massimo for your teaching. I have been reading your books and listening to podcasts for years now, and believed that I was learning the right way to approach life. However, when my only child was murdered 3 years ago, I lost my was as a stoic. I could not find any helpful writing about grief and loss (losing a child is quite different from losing a job, etc). Today’s lesson, for me, does not address those life events that are profoundly life changing. I would appreciate your comments on loss and grief.
Jill, I am deeply sorry for your loss. I can easily see why philosophy doesn't feel like it has the instruments to address that sort of catastrophic event in one's life.
That said, I don't think there are better options out there either, so perhaps you could consider giving philosophy another try. There are several resources within Stoicism, beginning with Seneca's letters of consolation to Marcia and to Polybius.
Also, Seneca's Letter n. 63 to his friend Lucilius, though it is specifically about losing a friend, not a child. Also, Letter n. 94.
Finally, How to Grieve, by Michael Fontaine, based on a largely lost book by Cicero.
Dear Massimo, the first year after Charlie’s death, I found comfort in vodka and tequila. Realized that this would lead to my own death, which I did not want. Also found some comfort and direction with therapy from a wonderful PhD psychologist and SSRI medication from my psychiatrist. I’m trying to get back to stoicism, and am glad that I have found Figs in Winter. Thank you for your leadership. Humans…we are troubled by so many things. Thank you for being a resource. I’m also learning to play chess and to play piano. Both comforting.
Jill, I'm glad I can be of any, even minor help. Good to have you here at FiW. Seems like you are doing the right things: seeking external help, developing new interests. Yes, human beings are troubled by so many things.
Reminds me of the 'Mind the gap' meditation: if something beyond one's control does not turn out as one wanted it to, it's best to pause and reflect before reacting!
Massimo,
I am struggling with this exercise. Namely, redirecting an aversion away from things I dislike - but not in my power - and transferring (the aversion?) it to things I can completely control. For instance, I have an aversion to an employee's sub-par work product - something not in my complete control. How can I transfer this aversion to something within my complete control? Also, I fail to identify which things within my complete control could have caused the aversion. Please help.
Hi Dan, that exercise is the toughest in the book, and Greg and I decided that if we are doing a second edition we will either drop it or change it significantly.
Still, your employee’s sub-par work is, of course, not up to you, so it’s not helpful to be aversed to it. Identify something that is up to you and “transfer” your aversion to that, for instance, you should be averse at getting irritated by things outside your control, or at not giving constructive feedback to employees. “Transferring” here is fancy wording for refocuse / nudge your thoughts from A (which is not up to you) to B (which is up to you).
In terms of identifying what causes your aversion, you need to reflect on how that aversion got started, what are your motives. For instance, you may have an unreasonable desire for efficiency, or for controlling other people’s performances—neither of which, of course, are up to you. This bit of the exercise is essentially about developing self knowledge, as the Oracle at Delphi said we should.
Thank you very much for the prompt reply! I now understand the exercise.
I find Massimo's interpretation of Epictetus helpful: Epictetus suggests that those who fall into circumstances they wish to avoid are those who suffer misfortune, by which he means that much suffering comes from a disconnect between what you want to happen and what actually happens." I often sense that “disconnection" but don’t identify it as such and so, wallow in foggy unease with less ability to act on the “suffering."
“Aversion to failure” is also more actionable than the real but almost cliche phrase “fear of failure,” which is so limiting for so many.
Haha I’m aware.
It’s a good exercise. It makes one isolate the different actions/ feelings and think about them.
Thank you.
A good reminder. I can only imagine the tranquility I would feel if I could truly live like this! I focused on desiring proper reactions and actions, tranquility when presented with unexpected news (I try not to add the value judgement “bad”), and my intentions. I should only be adverse to improper reactions/intentions rather than the events themselves.
Correct. Remember, only sages achieve complete tranquillity, just like few Buddhists achieve enlightenment. But it's the process that counts...
,Hi massimo,
I was working on my hospital example from last week.
I found that I had an aversion to receiving bad results from the exams at the hospital.
Thinking about the results of the exams was what preceded this aversion.
The conclusion I came to is that, instead of thinking about if the results were going to be positive or negative, I should’ve pondered on things in my control such as “ in case I need to have a surgery I’ll do X to get ready for my absence at work”.
I don’t think I’ve transferred an aversion though. I feel like even by planning out what I’ll do in case of a bad result, I’m still I’m thinking about the result…
Do you agree?
Rafael, you are doing it right. The feeling will abate with time. Unfortunately, even Stoicism is not a magic wand! 🪄
Should be “lost my way as a stoic”
Thank you dear Massimo for your teaching. I have been reading your books and listening to podcasts for years now, and believed that I was learning the right way to approach life. However, when my only child was murdered 3 years ago, I lost my was as a stoic. I could not find any helpful writing about grief and loss (losing a child is quite different from losing a job, etc). Today’s lesson, for me, does not address those life events that are profoundly life changing. I would appreciate your comments on loss and grief.
My deepest condolences. Thank you for finding your way to this page and being willing to share that here.
Jill, I am deeply sorry for your loss. I can easily see why philosophy doesn't feel like it has the instruments to address that sort of catastrophic event in one's life.
That said, I don't think there are better options out there either, so perhaps you could consider giving philosophy another try. There are several resources within Stoicism, beginning with Seneca's letters of consolation to Marcia and to Polybius.
Also, Seneca's Letter n. 63 to his friend Lucilius, though it is specifically about losing a friend, not a child. Also, Letter n. 94.
Finally, How to Grieve, by Michael Fontaine, based on a largely lost book by Cicero.
Take care.
Dear Massimo, the first year after Charlie’s death, I found comfort in vodka and tequila. Realized that this would lead to my own death, which I did not want. Also found some comfort and direction with therapy from a wonderful PhD psychologist and SSRI medication from my psychiatrist. I’m trying to get back to stoicism, and am glad that I have found Figs in Winter. Thank you for your leadership. Humans…we are troubled by so many things. Thank you for being a resource. I’m also learning to play chess and to play piano. Both comforting.
Jill, I'm glad I can be of any, even minor help. Good to have you here at FiW. Seems like you are doing the right things: seeking external help, developing new interests. Yes, human beings are troubled by so many things.
Reminds me of the 'Mind the gap' meditation: if something beyond one's control does not turn out as one wanted it to, it's best to pause and reflect before reacting!