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Victoria An Oompa Loompa's avatar

Wow and I just learned something new!!! So it's indeed cook Ding not Cook Pao in this case! Usually Chinese have their family name first, but in this case Pao(庖) actually means cook, and Ding(丁) is indeed his family name. Literally Cook Ding! 😅 I've been wrong all my life up this point!! I just to call him cook Bao, which is even more wrong!! Because I confused the character with the Japanese name for kitchen knife (包丁). 😂😂😂 this is way too many revelations in one day..🤦🏻‍♀️

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Antony Van der Mude's avatar

Both the Stoics and the Taoists share a somewhat similar attitude about death - it is part of nature and should not be denied. Compare the Stoic example of Seneca to a vignette in Zhuangzi:

I am quoting from:

https://thephilosophygarden.substack.com/p/how-to-die-with-seneca

https://thephilosophygarden.substack.com/p/recommended-books-e1a

How to die with Seneca

“Whatever existed before us was death. What does it matter whether you cease to be, or never begin? The outcome of either is just this, that you don’t exist.” (Epistle 114.27)

https://straightbamboo.com/death-of-zhuang-zis-wife/

Death of Zhuang Zi’s Wife

Zhuang Zi’s wife passed away, so his old friend Hui Zi came for a visit of condolence. When he arrived, he saw that Zhuang Zi was sitting on the ground, drumming a pot and singing a song. He did not seem to be grieving, and this seemed very inappropriate to Hui Zi.-

He said to Zhuang Zi: “What are you doing? Your wife has been there for you all those years, raising your children and building your family with you. Now she is gone, but you feel no sadness and shed no tears. You are actually drumming and singing! Isn’t this a bit much?”

“It’s not what it looks like my friend.” Zhuang Zi faced Hui Zi’s emotions. “Of course I was struck with grief when she passed on. How could I not be? But then, I realized that the life I thought she lost was actually not something she had originally. During all that time before her birth, she did not possess life, a physical form, or indeed anything at all. She ended up in exactly the same state, so she did not lose anything.”

---

Now considering the situation about the ox: "Now we can argue that their nature is not to be carved up for human consumption, so it turns out that Cook Ding is acting skillfully, but not ethically." As Huang says it: "the natural tendency, the inherent nature, or the inborn nature of oxen is obviously not to be carved by a cook, that of trees is not to be cut by the carpenter, and that of a cicada is not to be caught by the cicada catcher."

But Seneca has a different attitude, in that the means of death is a part of life:

"Seneca believed that life is only a journey toward death and that one must rehearse for death throughout life. Here, he tells us how to practice for death, how to die well, and how to understand the role of a good death in a good life."

What is missing is the notion of a "good death" in juding the ethics of Cook Ding. If we are all part of nature, then seen in the context of an acceptance of the reality of death, the inherent nature of the ox is to eventually die. Given that, a "good death" for the ox is one that is in accordance with its nature: that of a domesticated animal.

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